While cancer deaths in the United States have declined in recent years, some populations are being left behind—facing complicated challenges to accessing the care they need. Intervening at the earliest stages of disease onset is critical to cancer treatment success and to reducing the risk of recurrence. So how do we create a world where all people with cancer are quickly diagnosed and can live better, longer lives as science advances? In this conversation, patient advocates and healthcare leaders from Pfizer, the American Cancer Society, and the Healthcare Businesswomen’s Association, discuss the power of collaboration in the effort to “Outdo Cancer.”
While cancer deaths in the United States have declined in recent years, some populations are being left behind—facing complicated challenges to accessing the care they need. Intervening at the earliest stages of disease onset is critical to cancer treatment success and to reducing the risk of recurrence. So how do we create a world where all people with cancer are quickly diagnosed and can live better, longer lives as science advances? In this conversation, patient advocates and healthcare leaders from Pfizer, the American Cancer Society, and the Healthcare Businesswomen’s Association, discuss the power of collaboration in the effort to “Outdo Cancer.”
Moderator
• Tyrone McClain, Senior Director, Public Affairs, Pfizer
Speakers
• Carmen White, U.S. & Global Oncology Health Equity Lead, Pfizer
• Pam Traxel, American Cancer Society, Cancer Action Network
• Mary Stutts, CEO, Healthcare Businesswomen's Association (HBA)
This episode was recorded live in Austin, TX on Monday, March 10, as part of Pfizer’s takeover of the South by Southwest podcasting lounge.
Please fill out our short survey so we can get to know our listeners better: pfizer.com/podcastsurvey
Edie Allard:
While cancer deaths in the United States have declined in recent years, some populations are being left behind—facing complicated challenges to accessing the care they need. Intervening at the earliest stages of disease onset is critical to cancer treatment success and to reducing the risk of recurrence. So how do we create a world where all people with cancer are quickly diagnosed and can live better, longer lives as science advances?
On this special episode of Science Will Win, we’re sharing one of a series of conversations recorded live at the Pfizer podcasting lounge at South by Southwest.
Outdoing cancer is a team sport. It requires collaboration with patients, community organizers, healthcare providers, and technology innovators, alike. This panel features leaders in the patient advocacy and healthcare space, who are leading this charge. Join Tyrone McClain and Carmen White of Pfizer, Pam Traxel of the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network, and Mary Stutts of the Healthcare Businesswomen’s Association, as they discuss what this work looks like on the ground, and how they’re expanding the equity of the work to outdo cancer.
We hope you enjoy the conversation.
Tyrone McClain:
Welcome everybody to Pfizer’s takeover of the Podcast Lounge. I'm your moderator for today's discussion. I am really, really excited about this discussion. We have some amazing panelists doing some amazing work in our fight against cancer, so I'm really looking forward for them to shed some light on some of the work they're doing. But before we get started, I really wanna thank everyone that joined us. You guys can be anywhere in the world, but you guys are here with us. We very much appreciate it as the title stated, outdoing cancer is a team sport, so each of you have a critical role in helping us achieve this bold goal. So thanks again for joining us. To my lovely panelists, it's so nice to see you. I definitely wanna say happy Women's History Month. I am very honored and thankful to be sharing this stage with you all.
Tyrone McClain:
I have the benefit of having a relationship with each of you, so I happen to know how awesome you are. So to get us started, it'd be great for you just to tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you do. Carmen, you know what? You keep looking at me. We gonna get you started!
Carmen White:
Okay, I'll get started. So, hi everyone. I'm Carmen White. I serve as the U.S. and Global Health Equity lead for Pfizer Oncology. And internally I work cross-functionally to help set the strategy for health equity. But externally, I work with community leaders to find out what the unmet needs of our patient populations are for oncology and how we as Pfizer can serve to make sure that we insert the patient voice into everything we do and we're addressing those meet needs to close healthcare disparities.
Tyrone McClain:
Thank you. Pam?
Pam Traxel:
Hi everybody. I'm Pam Traxel. I'm with the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network or ACS CAN for short. That's definitely a mouthful. Our job is to be the public policy arm of the [American] Cancer Society and really talk to elected officials and the American public about why public policy makes a difference in the fight against cancer. So I wanna just tease out something for you for just a brief second. So, if you've ever been to a bar where you weren't allowed to smoke, that's a smoke-free law, right? And that comes as a result of the work of the American Cancer Society and ACS CAN. We personally believe at the American Cancer Society that public policy is as much a part of the fight against cancer as cancer research. And I'm really excited to be here today to talk about that.
Tyrone McClain:
Thank you. Come on, Mary.
Mary Stutts:
Alright. I'm Mary Stutts. I am the CEO of the Healthcare Businesswomen's Association. We are a 50-year-old organization and our mission is to further the advancement and impact of women in the business of healthcare. We are in 80 countries and six continents, all continents except Antarctica and I've already informed them we won't be going there under my tenure 'cause I don't do cold. However, we do have 160 corporate partners and we are in the midst of a massive expansion globally, so that we are continuing to create women leaders for life. That is our vision. And when we say for life, it's obviously a double entendre for the lives of their careers as well as for the lives of the patients that they are treating and working for in the industry. And I am very excited to be here with you today.
Tyrone McClain:
Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you guys for the introduction. I keep telling you guys, you're really awesome. So let's go and get started. So I think, Mary, I wanna start with you. We're gonna jump around a little bit, but I'm gonna start with Mary. Alright. So each of you comes from a different angle. I love to go down the line and hear a little bit more about what do you think are the biggest opportunities for us to collaborate on improving health outcomes for all people with cancer?
Mary Stutts:
So I think that it's interesting that women are the majority of the healthcare workforce globally, we're 80% of the healthcare workforce in the U.S., 65 to 70% in the rest of the world. And yet the women's health gap is horrible. Women and younger folks are bearing the brunt of the gaps, especially when it comes to cancer. And we're seeing that women are the ones who are having the worst outcomes. And a lot of that is because the physicians don't listen to them, don't take them seriously when they voice their concerns. And by the way, that's all women. I did the first diversity and clinical trials initiative in the industry when I was at Genentech, and what we found then we're finding now, which is that women, no matter what ethnicity or race the women are, and people of color, are not getting access to things, they're not being offered the option to things like clinical trials, to the newest, most innovative therapies.
Their concerns are not being taken seriously so that by the time they finally get a physician to pay attention to them, the disease has progressed to stage three, stage four. And especially women of color are seeing that even more so. And so the outcomes are horrible. So there's—the work that needs to be done, it's just what the title of this panel is: it's a team sport. We have to work to address the bias in the physician community. We have to fix the medical education model because physicians are not being trained. There is such a huge gap if you look at medical school, everything is based on the male anatomy. Only about 20% of the anatomical designs in medical school textbooks are women. Less than 10% are men. The gaps are huge.
Tyrone McClain:
Yes they are.
Mary Stutts:
And I will talk a little bit more about the studies and what we've done, but at the end of the day, the gaps are there for women especially and people of color. And that's why we are not seeing the progress. We're not benefiting from even the research that we should be benefiting from when it comes to cancer.
Tyrone McClain:
Agreed. Agreed. And I think that's a great segue to go on to Pam right? So we think about access, health equity, and making sure the patient voice is heard. I can't help to think about, you know, American Cancer Society. So I would love to get your thoughts on this.
Pam Traxel:
Yeah. You know, the American Cancer Society is really committed to our mission of making sure that we end cancer as we know it for everyone, men and women. Right. Regardless of where you live, regardless of your sexual orientation, the whole thing, right? So, when we think about women in particular, I always like to say women are the chief medical officers of their family. Right like—
Tyrone McClain:
Ain’t that the truth.
Pam Traxel:
So those of you that are in a relationship, maybe you might have experienced that. The thing that's really interesting about cancer Tyrone is that we actually can prevent 40% of all cancers with stuff we know right now. Not the amazing stuff that Pfizer is doing, although Pfizer is doing amazing stuff, but really it's thinking on focusing on living healthier lives and knowing more about your cancer risk. So one of the things that the [American] Cancer Society just released is a new tool called Cancer Risk 360.
So we partner with Pfizer on this. You can see it at cancer.org/cancerrisk. It's a really simple test you can do on your phone to evaluate your risk of getting cancer, and it makes recommendations about what you need to do. So I tell people all the time, cancer's the scariest word in the English language consistently, has been for years, but this doesn't mean that you can't do something about it, right? So, doing something about it is understanding your risk, right? Understanding your family history, and then really taking positive steps forward. This is where we, as we educate everyone, can start to really resolve disparities because everyone needs to understand that regardless of your background, your health insurance status, where you live, you have an equal opportunity to learn about how to prevent your cancer.
Tyrone McClain:
Thank you for that. And Carmen, you know, I know in oncology collaboration is huge. So, you know, what are you most excited about?
Carmen White:
So I think there's always an opportunity to collaborate where we can address systemic barriers to care, as well as facilitate access to care. So, Mary and Pam gave great examples about how we move patients into understanding and creating awareness around clinical trial participation and what that needs means to them as introducing it as a part of the healthcare continuum and not just something to consider at end of life. How we move policy forward, how we create education and awareness and help patients navigate their care, and not only the patient navigation of care, but caretakers as well. So creating support for them, I think there are opportunities to collaborate around how we address the whole health of both the patient and the caregiver. And lastly, wherever we can close gaps to creating access, awareness, and education around early interventions and screening diagnosis and treatment management.
Tyrone McClain:
Thank you for that. So we think about closing the healthcare gap and these innovations coming to the market, right? So I heard Pfizer has a bold goal by 2030 to bring eight major breakthroughs to the market, which I think is pretty ambitious right? And awesome. One way—I heard one way you're doing this is through community partnerships. I heard that there's some work that you're doing in Texas that may be able to scale to be helpful with these breakthroughs. Could you share more details about that?
Carmen White:
Sure. So first I wanna set the foundation of how this work was originated. So, Pfizer's oncology patient solutions group, we developed the Pfizer Oncology Patient Centricity Ecosystem (POPCE) and that is a mouthful, but it is the example of collaborating with advocacy groups, professional relations organizations, and Pam's organization is one of our valued partners. And through that work, we are able to take insights that are actionable from our patient advocates, they help inform us on what the unmet patient needs are and how Pfizer's efforts can address them. And we work with over 65 organizations to shape the work that we do, which leads us to our Texas cause work. And so, cause is not an acronym for anything, but it's our challenge to address unmet needs in certain locales in the U.S. and globally. And what we noticed, we looked at screening data pre and post pandemic and saw that there were disparate trends around patients returning to care after their cancer diagnoses.
And though this was a national trend, we saw that specifically in Texas, the rates were even higher. And when we looked in Texas, we saw that in Houston and in Dallas, the rates were increased. So we partnered with over 41 advocacy groups, national and local partners, and said, how can we address this problem collectively? So how can we bring community together to create a solution for community that will be utilized by oncology patients and their caregivers? So the effort that we identified is how do we not close the gap for patients receiving treatment, but how do we match those patients with the resources that are preventing them from getting their treatment? So those resources connected to the social determinants of health. So when we think about food security, health finance literacy, transportation, elder and childcare, how do we match those patients to those resources in an efficient way?
And we thought about the dissemination of information through pamphlets. We thought about all of the channels that a patient could potentially follow to get that information. And then we thought about who's that trusted source and community that a patient engages with along that journey. And we identified the patient navigator and community health worker or promotores as an opportunity to create connection with those patients in a trusted way. And the facilitator of that would be through a technology. So we thought, could we use AI to develop a resource that could match patients to those resources? So over a two year period, by having listening sessions in those communities, testing continuously to come up with our first iteration, we created a—through an incubator—we created an example of a tool that we are currently, we've tested it last year with, we took it back to these stakeholders, and we think that there's an opportunity for it to live outside of Pfizer's walls in the community. So we're in the process of handing that information and the source off to a non-profit partner to continue to build now that we found measurable success in community potentially.
Tyrone McClain:
So this is really awesome because, you know, it may be cliche, but they always say teamwork makes the dream work, right? So in our work, it doesn't work without partnerships, right? So what's amazing through this, you know, American Cancer Society has been with us from the beginning of this journey, this POPCE initiative with Pfizer Oncology from, you know, dissemination of the white paper to this Texan initiative, to now to the Change the Odds initiative that aims to address cancer care disparities and improve health outcomes in underserved communities. Pam, you've been on this journey with us, it'd be great if you can just elaborate a little bit more on these programs and any other big programs aimed at addressing health equity.
Pam Traxel:
Yeah. You know, I do think that the POPCE initiative, maybe in the beginning I thought, okay, this is just gonna be a way for Pfizer to hear from patient groups, and that's really important. But what I was really surprised about is that when they identified the problem here in Texas, and they called me and they said, “do you know that in Texas, and not just all of Texas, but in certain parts of Texas, men aren't getting prostate cancer screening, women aren't getting breast cancer screening.” And I was like, well, that's, that's gonna be bad for us, right? That's bad for the patients, but then we're gonna get all these phone calls. And they said, “well, we wanna do something about it. We're not just gonna sit on the data.” So really working with Pfizer and the POPCE team to create this AI tool has been a really important journey,
I think for the American Cancer Society it really pointed out two important things. One is: listening to the community is humbling. I'll never forget sitting with some patient navigators in Houston. They talk to me about how they navigate their patients. One lady told me she had a notebook. She writes the resources down in pencil so that if things change, she erases them and writes something new in. I immediately thought, we can do better than that. It is, you know, at this time, 2024, I think there's a computer that can help you. And I was also humbled by the fact that while every single person that came knew the American Cancer Society, they didn't exactly know what we could do for them. They didn't know that we had Hope Lodges. We didn't—they didn't know that we provide rides to service. And that candidly didn't feel so good to me, right?
That was like a very real moment where I thought, well, we need to lean in and do more. And so we've been very proud to partner with POPCE. We've been very proud to take that work actually and work with the federal government to create reimbursement for patient navigation for some sets of patients because we really see, like, how important patient navigators are in delivering service. But then we've expanded it even more with our Change the Odds initiative, which is really around exactly what it sounds like, changing the odds of people getting screened from cancer and surviving their cancer. And this is really focused on a couple things. It's about reaching patients in rural communities, of which there are many here in Texas, but obviously all across the country. We've done some really amazing PSAs with Patrick Dempsey, who's an amazing actor, but is also—grew up in Maine, believe it or not.
And really has a lot to say about what it's like to drive really far for your healthcare. There is so much that we can do. I think a lot of times people, you know, we talk about partnerships and people have like a version of a partnership. For me, our partnership with Pfizer is a true partnership because it's around talking about what's going right, but also what's going wrong and how we can work together to really think about what each part of us, you know, that we can bring to bring that together and how we're not afraid to bring in other groups to really help make a difference. Because in the end, cancer is taking too much from too many, right? We know over 2 million Americans will be diagnosed with cancer this year, and over 600,000 Americans will die. These are people we know and love and it's an imperative that we work together, not separately to make a difference in this disease.
Tyrone McClain:
Absolutely. And I think that's a really good point because cancer has taken a lot from other people, right? And Mary, I'm gonna go to you on this one because I think you was talking about just, alluding to it earlier today. Right? You know, in the healthcare system, in order for these innovations to really work, we have to have representation where it really matters for the connectivity, right? So I would love to hear more about the Healthcare Businesswomen’s Association and their work to empower women who work in healthcare and advance gender equity. You know, can you tell us a little more about your latest projects and the findings from them?
Mary Stutts:
Absolutely. So a couple of things. People most trust people who look like them, that's not racism, that's human nature. So it's very important as you're talking about making advances with cancer or any disease that you have people who look like the patient who is helping them. That's why the work you're doing out in the community is working. Because you are working with the people who look like the patients. And so that piece is very critical. Now, I do wanna just add in one piece here, because they were talking about AI. So, you know, the—as I've said before, the physician bias is a real hindrance to medical advancement, really helping people. And I know I sound like a dinosaur, but I was the first Chief Health Equity Officer at Stanford Healthcare. And when I was there, we—they stood up the healthcare AI group and we did a pilot with AI then that was called ambient listening in the exam room.
And they actually do it all the time now. And there may be other AI or you know, companies that do it. But the exciting thing about that, why I believe AI can help us—I know there are still some problems with it, but I do believe there's potential for us to help us—is that the ambient listening exam room is where the AI is listening to the physician, but the AI is also listening to the patient. And by the time the physician gets back to his or her office, the AI has provided a summary of what it heard, not only what it heard, but also a summary of, oh, based on what it heard, here are the potential clinical trials that might be available for this patient. Here are the potential new innovative therapies that may be available for this patient. Now, the exciting thing that's going to help us advance is that the AI puts that information in the patient's electronic health record.
And so we always tell patients you need to advocate for yourself. The average person does not know what that means. So to say to them, ask for a copy of your electronic health record after you have had a medical appointment to see if the doctor put in there what you said.
Tyrone McClain:
Mm-hmm .
Mary Stutts:
Were the symptoms. Make sure you are heard. And if you repeatedly are not heard for God's sake, find another physician. You don't have to stay there. Right?
Tyrone McClain:
Amen.
Mary Stutts:
Yes. We could clap for that. This is how you teach people to advocate for themselves. Also tell them, ask the physician, what are my options? Tell me what are all my options? The physician should not be deciding for you, what are your options. You should be deciding that. Certainly you're going to take into consideration what they say, but if they don't even tell you what your options are, how are you even gonna know what's available to you?
So having that information, helping patients understand how to truly advocate for themselves, ask for their options, get copies of their records, is very important. And then the other thing, what we have done specifically focusing on trying to close that women's health gap, because again, women are the majority of the healthcare workforce, if women aren't healthy the entire world is at risk of not being healthy. So we have to look out for ourselves. We did two studies through our HBA think tank this year, which we released at Davos. The first study was a study of the women who are members of the HBA. The HBA has over 160 corporate partners, global corporations with combined workforce of about 5 million employees. So we have a great database that we can research. And so we researched the women who are members. And I think we got response from women in over 42 countries about, what is the state of healthcare for women in the workplace?
Are there companies keeping up with their needs? And what we heard from many women was about the numbers of days they had to miss work for healthcare issues. And that their companies didn't necessarily provide the best benefits. Some of them did, but there also we heard about the stigma for women of even being able to talk about their healthcare needs. And then the other part of that survey was about ai. We asked them how much they understood AI and if they felt AI could help. A lot of them did not understand AI, but they did feel it could help. And so there's a huge opportunity there to continue to educate the workforce about the benefits of AI. The second survey was a survey of physicians. Where we surveyed physicians globally, not primary care docs, but specialists because it's the specialist who put you in trials and prescribed the newest, most innovative therapies.
We talked to oncologists, ophthalmologists, endocrinologists, neurologists, and cardiologists. And what we found, we asked those physicians how prepared they felt to treat women. And surprisingly, over 80% felt that they did not have all of the information they needed to successfully treat women. They did not have—the number one thing they didn’t have? Clinical data. Why didn't they have it? Because women are not included in clinical trials. They don't have enough information to help them understand the adverse impacts that medicine can have on women. So they said they don't have the information to understand the hormonal impact, that women have various hormonal issues. 'Cause let's just make sure everybody's clear in here, men and women are biologically different.
Everybody on board with me for that? Okay. Let's start right there. And so the hormonal differences in women have a significant impact on their reaction to the medications.
And that's why you're periodically hearing about these very negative impacts, diseases on women that weren't tested on women. And then so the hormonal impacts, the other thing are diagnostics. They do not have diagnostics to help them diagnose diseases. And even when, as I said, women are giving them their symptoms and all of that, but a lot of times there aren't the diagnostics to actually accurately predict what is wrong with them. So those, that's just something—you could go to our website hbanet.org and read both of those reports and get that information. But that's why we're doing much like what they, what the American Cancer Society and CAN is doing. You have to have data.
Tyrone McClain:
Yeah.
Mary Stutts:
Art Levinson, the CEO of Genentech when I was there, and we knew as executives look, his motto was, “in God we trust, all else must bring the data.” So that's why we're very much focusing on getting the data behind these challenges so that we could start to address them.
Tyrone McClain:
So I think that's a good point right there. I just wanna pause real quick 'cause I think right now we're starting to find our stride. Right now, we're starting to cook. I'm starting to feel a little inspired right now. So let's lean into the title just a little bit more, right? So as we said, outdoing cancer is a team sport, how do you think organizations like yours that approach healthcares from various angles can continue to work together to knock out cancer as we know it? And how can we engage other potential players? And I wanna start with you, Pam, on this right now, because of all your collaborative work you do.
Pam Traxel:
So I'm gonna get maybe a little controversial. So let's prepare ourselves. I think where we can collaborate the most together is around public policy change. And why? Because, you know, we've talked a lot about the individual patient, right? We talk about the individual doctor. But if we're really going to bring change right? To cancer, we have to work at more a system level. Right? And so when we think about systems, I'm not talking about, you know, a hospital system. I'm talking about our healthcare system, or the lack thereof 'cause it's not really a system. So really thinking about how we can prioritize policies that allow people to live healthier lives and survive their cancer. So there's a lot of controversy about this right now, but things like having health insurance are really important. The American Cancer Society actually did a study that showed that the number one thing that a cancer patient needs to survive their cancer is health insurance.
Because if they don't have health insurance, their cancer is diagnosed a full stage later. Once you have your health insurance, you need to make sure that you actually can get covered for the things that your doctor needs or that you need to navigate your care. And here's the most important thing.
We don't do it alone. Right? Everybody needs to work together to share their stories, to share their perspectives, to talk to representatives about why this matters to them. That's why it's a team sport, right? This is the ultimate team sport. Of going and talking to people here in the state capitol. I know we're all here at South by Southwest, but you know, the Capitol building is just up the street. You could go up there. You can talk to your members of Congress about why this change is important. You know, I think one of the hardest parts of my job and the hardest part of my organization's job is getting people to understand like, why public policy intersects with cancer. That's why Pfizer's such a good partner. 'cause you all understand that like very, very well because it's that kind of change that we need to bring Right? To resolve our situation with cancer right now.
Tyrone McClain:
Thank you, Pam. I mean, for some of us, public policy is our love language, so I'm glad you leaned on into that .
Pam Traxel:
It is my love language. And it's—not only is it my love language, I want it to be other people's love language and—
Tyrone McClain:
Keep going, that’s why we’ve got you here.
Pam Traxel:
Sometimes people don't jam on that. But I really think that, you know, the one thing that I notice when I work with cancer patients is they always say something to me. And I—it's really poignant to me because they say, well, I'd love for this to never happen to somebody else. Like, what happened to my family was horrible. What happened to me was horrible. I really wanna make sure that this doesn't happen to somebody else. And while sometimes those people are scientists, right? Sometimes, rarely, but sometimes they're scientists. Most of the time they're not. They're people like me. I have a political science degree, which is not science. So I can't jump into a Pfizer lab and, you know, culture something up and make great therapy. But I can share my story.
Tyrone McClain:
Sure can.
Pam Traxel:
And I can share my voice. And that's really what our organization is all about, is getting people to understand that using your voice, that's powerful. Right? That's how we make change. And that's why we're so proud to be here at South by Southwest where so many people are talking about sharing their stories, creating their content, communicating with people in different ways. And that's at the heart of what we're trying to do as we work together to end cancer.
Tyrone McClain:
So, really good point on, you know, part of the storytelling. You know, when I think about knocking out cancer, I think about this incredible commercial Pfizer had which was very inspiring. So Carmen, I would love to hear from you on this topic as well.
Carmen White:
So I am the lucky one on this panel, I think, that has the opportunity to work end to end in thinking about the overall patient experience. And Pam touched on the incorporation of the patient voice. And I think what was so powerful about the big game ad was, it did tell a story. It talked about the journey of that fight for cancer. And it's a fight that our patients as well as their family members and caregivers face every day. But how does that storytelling shape how we are educating communities? How does it shape how we are removing burdens from clinical trials by having the inputs of patients to understand procedural requirements, burden, time, et cetera. How are we closing the gap from diagnosis to treatment for patients and ensuring that they understand the required guidelines for getting screenings and what they can ask for, and knowing that they can ask for their EHR data. And doing that, not alone via Pfizer, but through our partners who are the trust makers, who are the facilitators, who are the shares of information. Because Pfizer can't do that alone. So we need their stories. We need them to amplify the stories in partnership with Pfizer so that we can make sure no matter where someone lives, where they work, how they play, they are able to get early and quality access to care.
Tyrone McClain:
Great. Great. Great. But before switching gears, I would love to hear from you, Mary, and how we can engage other potential players.
Mary Stutts:
Yeah. I think what you've heard described here is really a big part of how to do it, is identifying who are the key players and trying to pull in folks from all the different stakeholder groups. But one of the things that we've had to focus on even as we look at the industry itself and holding the industry accountable to make sure that they are understanding what is happening with the patient experience. Whether you are, you know, a biopharma company or a healthcare provider, how are you connecting? Are you practicing cultural humility? When I was on the consulting side with Real Chemistry, you know, some of the things we did was the cultural humility work for the companies themselves, for their MSLs, their medical science liaison, their their field force, the folks who are calling on the physicians to make sure that they are understanding about not cultural competence.
Tyrone McClain:
Mm-hmm .
Mary Stutts:
Because you can't become culturally competent in another culture that's not your own. So you have to maintain cultural humility and make sure that you are listening, you are asking questions, you're respecting what people are saying, but also to get to a lot of the assumptions that's causing our industry and the healthcare industry overall to leave a lot of money on the table. So there's a business imperative for doing this as well, that sometimes we miss when you talk about health equity and the billions of dollars that's being left on the table because we are not practicing cultural humility because we are assuming, for example, that all Black and Brown people are poor. I can't begin to tell you how many times when I was working with marketing and commercial teams and they had a new therapy that they were about to launch, and they wanted us to help them with that.
And when I would start to talk about the diverse populations and how literally they would say to me, “oh, yeah, yeah, we're gonna do something for the Medicaid population.” And I thought maybe it was a one-off, but when it kept happening, I finally was like, do I look like I'm on Medicaid?
Tyrone McClain:
Mmm .
Mary Stutts:
Every Black and Brown person is not poor. We work, we have jobs, we could pay the copay.
Tyrone McClain:
Yeah.
Mary Stutts:
Why are you assuming that? And so because of that, they literally were not doing campaigns to target diverse populations to let them know about these therapies so that they could get access to the newest, most innovative therapies and know about them just like everyone else. And you see more and more companies are doing like multicultural marketing and stuff like that now, but still in the healthcare industry, we are behind because of a lot of the inbred bias and stereotypes just within the industry workers themselves. And it's really very upsetting. But that's why we have to be vigilant and look at all the stakeholders. The patients aren't the only stakeholders.
Carmen White:
Yeah. And I think there's an opportunity to remember that diverse does not mean other. It's inclusive.
Tyrone and Mary:
Yeah, Yes .
Pam Traxel:
Yeah. I think you're raising such a really important point. Cancer doesn't care what you look like. Doesn't care where you live, doesn't care how far it is to the doctor. And somebody is diagnosed with cancer in this country every 15 seconds. We've been up here, what, half an hour.
Tyrone McClain:
Yeah.
Pam Traxel:
Do the math. And I think that that's something that, it's a great equalizer, you know, and it, we really do need to really think about it being a team, right. Because there's a lot to be learned about everyone that has cancer and everyone sharing their story and their experience with the disease. Because like I said, it does not matter. There's not a single person out there that can say, “oh, well, you know, you're gonna be fine. You're not gonna get cancer there.” Literally, I tell people all the time when I'm working with somebody, I say, “so when you had a doctor's appointment, you went to the doctor, you did your, you know, your exam, your physical exam, whatever, maybe they ran a blood test or something. No one walks into that office saying like, oh, I know they're gonna tell me today that I have cancer.” No one's waiting for that. Right? So this is something that we all have to work together to prepare for because it does come out of nowhere. Right? And we have to really think about how we can support people in that journey. And that's why working together is so important, because people have a lot of needs when they have cancer.
Tyrone McClain:
Absolutely. And I think cultural humility is a very important word that we need just to focus in a little bit. Right? So when I hear this, I think about patients themselves and a lot of these initiatives, you know, from your work, we all know that, you know, most patients say for us, by us, we should be included. Right. Which means they wanna be part of the conversation, the development. Right? So, Carmen, I wanna start with you right now because I think this is really important in your role, you know, where do patients themselves fit into your initiatives that you're putting together? And, you know, how does patient centricity shape your work?
Carmen White:
So one of the great platforms that really champions the patient experience is This Is Living With Cancer. So the website was developed in 2017. We've had over 5.5 million visitors. We have resources that are supplied by over 70 organizational partners. Because what's really important is that we make sure that the content that's shared is diversified. That it's not just a single voice. And I think when people hear consistent messaging from multiple stakeholders, then they can say, this is true. When they see the stories of people who reflect their experience who have gone through navigating financial hardships. We have another website, MyHealthcareFinances that is free and gives information around a lot of the topics that are of concern to the oncology patient community. But it's through those external facing resources that I think we are able to help meet patients where they are. And also when it comes to the incorporation of the patient voice, our healthcare professionals are going to be the conduit of any information that's shared. So it's important that we utilize the patient feedback from our partners within POPCE and our steering committees so that we can share that back with our healthcare community partners, so that they're aware of how to be effective in having a conversation with someone, making sure that we are addressing language barriers, whether it's spoken or signed and creating those opportunities for patients.
Mary Stutts:
Yeah. I was gonna say you know, everyone can help. Even if it's just focusing on prevention and encouraging your own family and loved ones to get screenings. We are in the midst, as I mentioned earlier, of a massive global expansion with the HBA. And we're expanding into all these countries, into Dubai, into India, into Japan, and we're doing these leadership round tables as we are doing that. And the big expansion in Japan, I was shocked to hear that the number one killer of women in their thirties and forties in Japan is cervical cancer. There is not only, you know, there's a vaccine for that, but also the early screening, but they don't do screenings there because of their culture. it's kind of like a taboo, it's an embarrassing thing to talk about. So clearly for us, when we did our round table talking to the leaders saying, how can we help?
Well first of all, make sure you're doing these prevention campaigns in your companies for your employees. Make sure the screening is covered with the insurance. It's these kinds of things that are the reasons people are dying. Because as Pam already said, a lot of it, we have the answers, we have the cures. But if people don't know, you would think that women—Japan is a super westernized country with lots of resources in healthcare. You would think that that would not be the issue, but it is. So, I think all of us carry that responsibility now that we know. And we do know here certainly in the U.S. and in your organizations where you work the value of prevention and you can't unknow it. We can't unknow it. So it's, a big part of that is on us to be that voice and to not be quiet about the potential impact of cancer, but also how to stop it, undo it in the first place with a big focus on prevention and education and screenings.
Tyrone McClain:
So prioritizing patient centricity takes a lot of courage as far as I'm concerned. Right? ‘Cause it has to start with inside, right? So for—in order to start with inside, you have to be a firm believer in it. Right? And it also takes a lot of institutional commitment to cultural humility and equity. How are you working to promote and uphold equity within your organization, Pam?
Pam Traxel:
So first and foremost, not backing away from it. So our mission statement is to end cancer as we know it for everyone. And we mean for everyone. So as the political winds change, we do not change. We actually have doubled down to do more to reach out to different voices to celebrate those voices. And we feel very strongly. So just actually in the past several years, ACS CAN, like a lot of other organizations as a volunteer organization, we have over a couple hundred thousand volunteers across the country. We created volunteer affinity groups. So we've got a Black volunteers caucus that is focused on the problems in the Black community around cancer access. So they've been working a lot on clinical trials. So this is people in the community talking about the solutions they wanna see in the community by, you know, ACS CAN’s, almost a 25-year-old organization.
And I think part of what we have to do is create space for people to talk about their problems with people that look and think like them. And then support them and bring that idea forward. You know, this just can't exist in a vacuum. I tell people all the time, I would love to say that there's a set of people out there in the United States that do not get cancer. That is not true. So we have to meet people where they are, and more importantly, we have to work to encourage them to share their stories. It's difficult when you are on Medicaid to share your story. It is difficult to tell someone that there was a time where you could not put food on your table to feed your family because you were trying to decide whether or not to pay your doctor for your cancer treatment or to feed your family. Quick answer. You feed your family. But then how do we create a healthcare system where that is a choice? So I think part of it is, it's not just cultural humility, it's actually like really recognizing people for people. Right? And the true problems that they have regardless of who you are. Right? Because that's where we're gonna really make a huge difference. Right. And we can't—I think we can't shy away from that. I know so many people say, “Are, you know, well, are you gonna, are you gonna change?”
I mean, until cancer changes, no, we're not gonna change. This is who we are as an organization. We are here to serve every single person that has cancer.
Tyrone McClain:
So Carmen, you know, hearing this, it just makes me—I wanna go, I wanna lean into a little bit with you. Right? So commitment, right? In this new day and age, when we talk about health equity and not moving away. Like, tell me a little bit more about how you guys are upholding this and has anything changed in your role with this day and age right now?
Carmen White:
So nothing has changed in my role.
Tyrone McClain:
Business as usual, then?
Carmen White:
Business as usual.
Tyrone McClain:
Okay.
Carmen White:
I mean, I'm really proud that, you know, equity is one of our core values alongside courage, joy, and excellence. And so I want to demonstrate that in everything we do in partnership with our external organizations that we work to advance access to care. So it's business as usual over here.
Tyrone McClain:
So switching gears just a little bit, and Mary you start off right this—with this a little bit, right? So we're in a digital age where we're able to get information at our fingertips really quickly, and sometimes we can get information out that doesn't need to get out but , so now that we live in this digital age and people around the world are able to connect more than ever. Especially with the evolution of AI. What impact has technology had on your work? Or if it hasn't, what are you looking more forward to?
Mary Stutts:
Yeah, I think that the technology that is being developed by women, sorry, I am the HBA, so I'm talk about women,
Tyrone McClain:
Absolutely.
Mary Stutts:
But the truth of the matter is the majority of the health equity innovation—and a lot of that innovation is digital innovation—the majority of that health equity innovation is coming from women. Because women have worked their entire careers in healthcare from entry level all the way up. But those women are not being funded. Their innovation is not being funded at the same rate as men's innovation. So a big focus for us at the HBA is making sure that women innovators are funded. We hosted our first pitch competition at our annual conference in Toronto, this past September. And we had amazing participation. Over 70 women founded companies in that health equity space and beyond participated.
And our corporate partners who have their own corporate investment arms where they invest in new companies, we wanted to bring them in to help them understand about all these—this great innovation that women are having. And to also fund the prize money to give them. So they—and they participated. It was great. We had great participation. We were able to acknowledge these women and that is a big part of the HBA’s strategic plan going forward. Not only addressing women's health and wellness, but also funding women innovators and making sure that all these brilliant ideas that women have—in that digital tech space that actually will advance health equity and advance our industry—that it is actually being funded and being put on platforms and stages where folks with money can participate. We brought in Can Fund It.
We brought in venture capital firms at that event, and specifically VC firms that are run by women like How Women Invest and Portfolia and others. There are actually quite a few. And making sure that we were educating the women of the HBA who are very senior level women who attend our conferences and high net worth women to help them understand that there were organizations, funds that they could contribute to help support other women and fund women's innovation. And that has just really taken off. Everybody now wants to know when is the next one. I'm like, my God, I'm still recovering from the first one, but we'll see .
Tyrone McClain:
Well, let's go Mary, you really representin’ for Women’s History Month. I really appreciate this. Oh, let's go .
Mary Stutts:
Absolutely.
Tyrone McClain:
Pam?
Pam Traxel:
You know, I think to me, a couple things about technology. I love social media and our ability to connect with legislators. So one of our favorite things to do is when we meet with a legislator, you know, take a selfie with them and tag them. Sometimes they like retweet our stuff and it's like, it's exciting. But I think I often think a little bit about some of 'em are volunteers who are older than me who are learning for the very first time how to use Facebook or Blue Sky or X or you know, whatever Insta and the empowerment that that brings and how proud they are to share with their family. Like how hip and happening they are. But the fact that they're really using that for change. Like I think there's a great opportunity for dialogue for people across the country to communicate with each other in a different way.
I think the one thing that I worry about is the digital divide and the fact that there are so many people that can't afford to do that. You know, when we think about, you know, telehealth and things like that, you know, one of the things we worry about is that you'd be forced to use telehealth. What if you don't have broadband?
Other Participants:
Mm-hmm .
Pam Traxel:
What if you can't—what if your cell phone ran outta minutes? So we have to make sure that this works for everyone. But I do think there's something really special about reaching—people connecting across, you know, the country, across the world, sharing their issues in a way that you probably couldn't do before. We have a lot more, I think, to do to bring that forward. But right now I am really excited about the fact that, you know, on my feed, I'm constantly looking at people tagging lawmakers, asking them to, you know, increase cancer research funding or expand Medicaid or, you know, that's really powerful and that's so different than it used to be. That it's really exciting to me.
Tyrone McClain:
Yeah. That digital divide is really real and I think about underserved communities, right? So I want to ask you a little bit different question, Carmen.
Carmen White:
Sure.
Tyrone McClain:
What is Pfizer doing to close that gap?
Carmen White:
So we are definitely listening to community. When we think about those populations that are adversely impacted by earlier cancer diagnoses. We're thinking about the young adult community
Tyrone McClain:
Mmm-hmm .
Carmen White:
Who are dying at higher rates because of late stage diagnosis. So we think about the American Native, American Indian and Alaska Native community and addressing that digital divide. That the access to broadband, that the remoteness of a reservation from a healthcare facility, whether it's delivered by the reservation through healthcare services or Indian healthcare services, rural communities. We're really thinking holistically and listening to community about how we close that gap. Because technology ,yes, is a channel in which people can get information to educate themselves, create awareness, schedule a visit, and an appointment. But it should be complimentary to that high touch through just traditional information sharing with a person.
And so we can't negate one for the other. They have to work hand in hand. So how are we preparing information so that it does exhibit cultural humility and cultural relevance to communities to educate them and bring them along on the journey. So creating customized materials, materials in languages, not just English and Spanish, wherever we can. Addressing, we know in South Florida work that we're doing, introducing Creole translations for that community. So I think it really is looking at who is experiencing the disparity, how do we close that gap and really customize information wherever we can for that audience. And the other thing I'll say around technology is that there's such value in the work of AI, but we also want to make sure that we are accounting for those unintended consequences there. In one of the earlier sessions, they were talking about how we train the model and ensuring that diverse voices are incorporated in the training of the model alongside healthcare professionals. So that the opportunity with even the tool that we are creating in Texas, we are not delaying patients access, timely access to resources that we're incorporating that as quickly as possible by creating a feedback loop and utilizing not only, generative AI, but static AI as well.
Tyrone McClain:
So, really quickly, one thing I do wanna lean into technology before we switch a little bit is the ability to build community, right? I think what is the biggest thing we think about when we think about the disease types, right? So we're at a big stage right now with some people who are listening and watching, right? So can you share some community organizing efforts that you're taking part in or something that you're planning in the future that you'd like to share?
Pam Traxel:
Yeah. So we are doing so many things, so many places. So ACS CAN exists in all 50 states.
Tyrone McClain:
Yes, they do.
Pam Traxel:
We go into every state capitol, we go to the hill, we are every place. What I love best about my organization is whether you have five minutes or five hours or five days, we have a volunteer opportunity for you to share your story and use your power. That starts by visiting us at fightcancer.org or checking us out on social. Even just following us is really, it's part of making people understand that people care about the fight against cancer. There is so much happening right now and everyone has a lot of feelings. You know, the kids today, they say all the feelings. Yeah. There's a lot of feelings.
Tyrone McClain:
Mm-hmm .
Pam Traxel:
You can do a lot with those feelings by getting involved and not just sitting back and being overwhelmed, but really thinking about what you can do in the fight against cancer. Because really fighting cancer is a team sport. But in order for it to be team sport, I'm gonna take the analogy a step further. You gotta get off the sidelines. Suit up. Right? Put on the pads, come be an advocate and, and share your story. 'Cause people say to me, “I can't do that.” Your voice is your power. Right? That's why you're here. So let's train that on cancer. 'Cause it can make a huge difference.
Tyrone McClain:
Absolutely. So this panel discussion has been went by so fast. I'm just having so much fun. I have two more questions. So I'm hoping we can get through this really quickly, right? So I kind of like to end on a positive note 'cause I think we need some positivity, but that's not my last question if we get through it. So I'm letting you guys know that right now. Right? But what I would like to hear quickly from you guys is what's something that excites you about the future of oncology and our efforts to improve health equity?
Carmen White:
It's always collaboration. Yeah.
Pam Traxel:
I would say targeted therapies that are really focusing on different populations that experience cancer differently. And really offering therapy to folks who have multiple myeloma or some of these other cancers where you do tend to see a racial difference. In the types of people that are being diagnosed.
Mary Stutts:
Yeah, I agree with that. The personalized medicine possibilities that exist so that we can actually treat people more individually instead of mass.
Tyrone McClain:
Mm-hmm .
Mary Stutts:
Treatment for folks. And that's where the potential of the diagnostics and even AI to a certain extent can help with that. And so very hopeful about all of that. But again, needing to remember where there are challenges. I was just in a panel yesterday with more folks from Stanford talking about AI and the fact that you can go get a lot of information right now. Like—but there are challenges. So for example, they talked about how asking AI to give a list of all of the therapies for breast cancer. And it's a pretty exhaustive list. So it's very thorough. You can—patients can get that information now, however, when they went back and asked that same AI, give me a list of breast cancer therapies for a specific diversity, whether it's Black or Latino or whomever, the number was reduced almost three quarters.
Tyrone McClain:
So I think you're cooking right there. And I wanna pause you real quick 'cause I wanna make sure we can get to my last question.
Mary Stutts:
Okay.
Tyrone McClain:
And I think you're gonna be able to wrap up with this, what you were talking to—talking about. Right? So I was encouraged by a friend in the audience before we got started, and she asked me to make sure I asked this question, what are the key takeaways that you want people to take away from this conversation? We have a minute. So let’s be quick.
Mary Stutts:
Use all your resources. That to me, find out what all the resources are and use them all. Don't stop thinking, don't—
Tyrone McClain:
Yep.
Mary Stutts:
We can't rest where we are, we have not achieved Nirvana yet. So use every single resource and option you have.
Tyrone McClain:
Thank you. Pam?
Pam Traxel:
Two things. Know your risk of cancer.
Tyrone McClain:
Mm-hmm .
Pam Traxel:
And get involved.
Tyrone McClain:
Love it. Carmen?
Carmen White:
I would say know your risk of cancer by sharing your family history. That's one of those pieces of the cultural divide that I think we definitely need to close. And also never forget keeping the patient at the center of everything that you do because it starts and ends there.
Tyrone McClain:
Wow. Well, thank you guys so much. I'm feeling so inspired right now. Thank everyone for joining us, I really wanna thank Ellen, Erica and Mia for putting this panel discussion together. Thank you guys. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. If you're around, just come on and say hello. We not—we won't bite .